Star Trek: The Discussion Thread

[Steerpike]

Star Trek: The Discussion Thread

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This thread is to discuss Star Trek in various incarnations and has been prompted by discussion in another thread.

Discussion can be about plot, characters, writing, etcetera.

Discussion should be limited to:

Star Trek (The Original Series)
Star Trek The Next Generation
Star Trek Deep Space Nine
Star Trek Voyager

Star Trek The Motion Picture
Star Trek II The Wrath of Khan
Star Trek III The Search for Spock
Star Trek IV The Voyage Home
Star Trek V The Final Frontier
Star Trek VI The Undiscovered Country
Star Trek Generations
Star Trek First Contact
Star Trek Insurrection
Star Trek Nemesis

As Star Trek The Next Generation is arguably the most popular series of the franchise, we can start discussion there. But anyone may branch the discussion out to any of the aforementioned series or movies if they wish.
To start off, I would place up for discussion Captain Picard’s handling of the situation with Wesley Crusher and the Edo in the Star Trek The Next Generation episode, “Justice.”

What is your opinion of how Captain Picard handled any part of this?

I’ll start by offering this:
His decision of using an appeal to buy time before Wesley’s scheduled execution was consistent with the Prime Directive.

This thread is for discussion. So discuss and enjoy. If you don’t know much about Star Trek and would still like to participate in discussion, then feel free to join in and ask questions.

[fleinn]

Originally Posted by Steerpike

What is your opinion of how Captain Picard handled any part of this?

Well, it's clear they wouldn't respect the outcome of the trial unless Wesley goes free. And they end up pleading with the "god" instead of the people on the ground and their laws. So in the end it's clear it's their own laws they're being tested against. Which they end up saying is not absolute, and was always more than a rule- book.

Something the planet's provider presumably thinks is a good lesson for the inhabitants. As well as a good excuse for the federation crew, since they let them interrupt the society without being punished for it.

But obviously they're breaking the prime directive in every episode by just being there - so the nature of the directive, and whether it only makes sense to see it in the light of the mission of exploration the ship is on, or whether it's an absolute rule - is an interesting question. But in this case, I think, the provider simply holds them to their own laws (which the enterprise crew is only happy to disregard if they think they should).

[Steerpike]

Originally Posted by fleinn

Well, it's clear they wouldn't respect the outcome of the trial unless Wesley goes free. And they end up pleading with the "god" instead of the people on the ground and their laws. So in the end it's clear it's their own laws they're being tested against. Which they end up saying is not absolute, and was always more than a rule- book.

Technically, there wasn't much of a trial. The law enforcers established that Wesley did indeed trample that flower bed. Wesley admitted it, as a demonstration of honesty. But the penalty for any infraction on Rubicon III was death.

Originally Posted by fleinn

Something the planet's provider presumably thinks is a good lesson for the inhabitants. As well as a good excuse for the federation crew, since they let them interrupt the society without being punished for it.

This could be a good a point. What did you think about Captain Picard's offer to the Edo Guardian to remove recently settled colonists from nearby systems?

Originally Posted by fleinn

But obviously they're breaking the prime directive in every episode by just being there - so the nature of the directive, and whether it only makes sense to see it in the light of the mission of exploration the ship is on, or whether it's an absolute rule - is an interesting question. But in this case, I think, the provider simply holds them to their own laws (which the enterprise crew is only happy to disregard if they think they should).

First, we would have to know the exact wording of the Prime Directive which we do not. Primarily, it would be in the light of exploration. There is an example to cite for this. The fourth season episode, "First Contact" the Enterprise does make first contact with a race called the Malkorians. In the end of the episode, the Malkorian leader, Chancellor Durkin, decides that they are not ready for relationship with the Federation and asks them to leave. They do leave with the science minister who was spearheading the warp program.

I did say primarily because it also applies to Federation members. In the episode, "The Cloud Minders", it is made clear that they do not have the right to interfere in the internal affairs of member worlds.

[DLFerguson]

Can I throw my STAR TREK fan fiction in this discussion? If not, just ignore.

Star Trek: Fotheran & Mallory

[Storm]

May I just ask why Star Trek Enterprise is not included in that list up the top? It is canon, is it not?

[Steerpike]

Originally Posted by Storm

May I just ask why Star Trek Enterprise is not included in that list up the top? It is canon, is it not?

It's omission was not an oversight. As canon, it can be considered dunsel. If you do wish to discuss Star Trek Enterprise, then you are welcome to make a thread for it.

You are welcome to discuss the other series and movies here.

[Storm]

And what exactly do you mean by dunsel?
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Also, from what I've read, Star Trek: Enterprise is generally considered to be canon Trek. The only issue could be the final episode "These Are The Voyages".

[Steerpike]

Originally Posted by Storm

And what exactly do you mean by dunsel?
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Originally Posted by Star Trek, "The Ultimate Computer"

McCoy: Dunsel? Who the blazes is Captain Dunsel?
Spock: Dunsel, doctor, is a term used by midshipmen in Star Fleet Academy. It refers to a part which serves no useful purpose.

Originally Posted by Storm

Also, from what I've read, Star Trek: Enterprise is generally considered to be canon Trek. The only issue could be the final episode "These Are The Voyages".

Officially, it is canon.

The final episode of the series was in essence a holodeck episode of Star Trek The Next Generation, by extension the entire series can be construed to be so. It is the functional equivalent of a series season which ends with the entire season being a dream sequence, only in this case it takes in the entire series (a la Newhart).

If you would like to join this discussion, we are talking about Captain Picard and his handling of the situation in "Justice." You can either try to address that issue or get into our discussion about the Prime Directive or you may branch the discussion into another of topic within the listed series and movies.

[fleinn]

Originally Posted by Steerpike

Technically, there wasn't much of a trial. The law enforcers established that Wesley did indeed trample that flower bed. Wesley admitted it, as a demonstration of honesty. But the penalty for any infraction on Rubicon III was death.

Right. Symbolising heavily the expulsion from eden, for all kinds of dramatic purposes. The problem is that they are not in a position to judge what makes that society work. But they are forced into it by circumstance. Or, to continue the eden- aphorism, they're just doing what they do, they are what they are. Or then again, maybe it's simply making a point that humans are no longer fit for living in paradise, and must leave.

This could be a good a point. What did you think about Captain Picard's offer to the Edo Guardian to remove recently settled colonists from nearby systems?

That was part of the deal, no? To leave the starcluster, and never come back (cue booming voice of God).

First, we would have to know the exact wording of the Prime Directive which we do not. Primarily, it would be in the light of exploration. There is an example to cite for this. The fourth season episode, "First Contact" the Enterprise does make first contact with a race called the Malkorians. In the end of the episode, the Malkorian leader, Chancellor Durkin, decides that they are not ready for relationship with the Federation and asks them to leave. They do leave with the science minister who was spearheading the warp program.

Mm. Picard also explains that they accelerated the usual first contact because they felt they needed to. And he explains the difficult battle the federation fought to allow agents on other planets to prepare for the first contact - to avoid wars like with the Klingons or the Romulans. But in the end they keep the low profile, they avoid making irreversible displays of various kinds, and leave at the request of their leader, just as Picard promises. So I think it's pretty clear what the directive says, as well as what it is.

I did say primarily because it also applies to Federation members. In the episode, "The Cloud Minders", it is made clear that they do not have the right to interfere in the internal affairs of member worlds.

Right. That's what I like about the original series, really. They know what the directive is - and they break it only if they have a good reason (which they question a lot). "You're going to listen to reason and be peaceful like us, or I'm going to shoot you in the head with my phaser!".

[Vegito728]

Steerpike: Please don't tell another member what to and not to do. "Feel free to join in and ask questions" is what you said in your first post. Storm did just that and you told him to stay on topic or make another thread. So in the future please refrain from doing this.

Thanks,

Vegito728