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Big Blockbusters Talk details or specifics about big movies in here with huge followings. i.e. Star Wars, Lord of the Rings, etc.

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  #1 
Old 11-23-2008, 08:09 PM
Hybrix's Avatar
Hybrix
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Star Trek (Reboot)

Another Star Trek movie, this time titled simply "Star Trek".

Seems like a reboot to me. It has all new actors, Kirk's origins, etc. Here it is. Take a look.

Apple - Trailers - Star Trek

I'd say it's the perfect time to introduce new fans to the series. Needless to say the special effects of originals and even some of the newer movies/shows have kept younger viewers away. This movie definitely doesn't look like it's lacking in the special effects department.

I'm not a big fan of Star Trek but this does look pretty awesome.



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  #2 
Old 11-29-2008, 10:45 AM
Steerpike's Avatar
Steerpike
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Some facts that Paramount, probably should have considered:

1. The core audience of Star Trek has rejected "pre-quel." The latest chronologically produced television series, Enterprise, which was a pre-quel series lost audience from the core. It did not go the seven year run of the other sequel series.

2. Star Trek is a niche type cultural phenomenon which does not appeal to all people. See point 1.

3. Star Trek fans tend to be protective of canon and this movie looks to be playing with it. See point 1.

4. Niche type cultural phenomenon need to either hold their core or grow to ultimately survive. See point 1.

While this new film may make a profit, after merchandising etcetera, it is unlikely to expand the fan base and thus not be an overall asset to the franchise.
  #3 
Old 11-29-2008, 11:19 AM
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Sim
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I'm a big fan of the Original Star Trek series from the 60s and I am thrilled about this reboot. The trailer looks very promising. I just hope all this action and FX in the trailer does not mean good story writing and character development will be neglected.

@Steerpike:

I don't think the failure of the last series "Enterprise" necessarily means the fans don't like the prequel approach. I believe the main reason for its failure was not the premise of the series, but the poor execution: They recycled the same tired plot devices they had driven to death already in the three series before, TNG to Voyager. Instead of actually exploring the prequel premise, the show introduced entirely new enemies (Suliban, Xindi) and tired "alien of the week" episodes. Enterprise was suffering from severe creative burnout.

When they started to actually focus on the prequel premise in season 4, it was too late already, most fans had given up on the series. But those who kept watching were mostly impressed by season 4. So I would say ENT's problem was not that it was a prequel, but even on the contrary, that it was not prequel enough in season 1 to 3.
  #4 
Old 11-29-2008, 11:41 AM
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Steerpike
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sim View Post
I'm a big fan of the Original Star Trek series from the 60s and I am thrilled about this reboot. The trailer looks very promising. I just hope all this action and FX in the trailer does not mean good story writing and character development will be neglected.

How much of the core audience from the original series do you think shares this sentiment?

The last movie, Star Trek: Nemesis, was with Picard, the most popular Captain in the franchise, and the movie did not do well at the box office (for various reasons). Now they propose to re-cast the original crew. How can this expect to do better than Star Trek: Nemesis at the box office?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sim View Post
@Steerpike:

I don't think the failure of the last series "Enterprise" necessarily means the fans don't like the prequel approach.
Bottom line, it did fail and it was a pre-quel. It also tampered with canon.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sim View Post
I believe the main reason for its failure was not the premise of the series, but the poor execution: ....
It is still Berman, et. al. What makes you think this will be any different?
  #5 
Old 11-29-2008, 12:00 PM
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Sim
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Steerpike View Post
How much of the core audience from the original series do you think shares this sentiment?

The last movie, Star Trek: Nemesis, was with Picard, the most popular Captain in the franchise, and the movie did not do well at the box office (for various reasons). Now they propose to re-cast the original crew. How can this expect to do better than Star Trek: Nemesis at the box office?
I think the original crew, Kirk, Spock and Bones are ultimately more popular and iconic than any of the following series'. The original series still holds cult status, and even people who aren't fans know who Kirk and Spock are -- but 15 years after TNG, nobody cares about Picard and Data anymore.

The new movie has three times the budget of the previous movies. So I am sure there will be a huge advertisement campaign. When the movie is good, I think it may very well be successful at introducing new fans to the franchise.

Quote:
It is still Berman, et. al. What makes you think this will be any different?
Berman and all the producers of TNG to ENT are not involved in the production of the new movie. They have all been fired. No Berman, no Braga, no Piller.

J.J. Abrams ("Lost", "Alias", "MI3") is at helm now, and he wants to look at Star Trek from a fresh new angle.

If he'll be successful, we'll see. But I think it's too early to assume he cannot be successful.
  #6 
Old 11-29-2008, 12:15 PM
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Steerpike
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sim View Post
I think the original crew, Kirk, Spock and Bones are ultimately more popular and iconic than any of the following series'. The original series still holds cult status, and even people who aren't fans know who Kirk and Spock are -- but 15 years after TNG, nobody cares about Picard and Data anymore.
Whether the original crew is more popular is debatable. It was Star Trek The Next Generation which expanded the fan base. However, this is not the original crew. This a re-casting of those roles. The cult status in this regard does not aid success in acceptance.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sim View Post
The new movie has three times the budget of the previous movies. So I am sure there will be a huge advertisement campaign. When the movie is good, I think it may very well be successful at introducing new fans to the franchise.
That is at least "one nail in the coffin" already. Remember, Star Trek has very limited appeal and the more it costs to make, the more it must make at the box office to be profitable. If this doesn't appeal to much more than base (which is likely), then it is unlikely to be successful. It isn't going to carry the entire base either which lessens its chances of success.

Consider if you were not a Trek fan and you found that a good percentage of Trek fans were not interested in this film, would you be inclined to go see the film or conclude that it probably isn't worth it?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sim View Post
Berman and all the producers of TNG to ENT are not involved in the production of the new movie. They have all been fired. No Berman, no Braga, no Piller.
I stand corrected. But it doesn't change anything.
  #7 
Old 11-29-2008, 12:24 PM
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Sim
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Maybe you are right, but on the other side, I also see the chance that this movie will be a nice popcorn-blockbuster with the potential to please common fans of action/SF movies, even many people who didn't care about Star Trek before, because they considered it cheesy.

The problem of the previous movies was that they lacked appeal to common audiences. This movie may change it. Whether it will be successful at achieving that, we won't know that for sure until it's out.
  #8 
Old 11-29-2008, 12:40 PM
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Steerpike
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sim View Post
Maybe you are right, but on the other side, I also see the chance that this movie will be a nice popcorn-blockbuster with the potential to please common fans of action/SF movies, even many people who didn't care about Star Trek before, because they considered it cheesy.
Pleasing "common fans of action/SF movies" isn't going to expand the base and help the franchise grow. If they haven't bothered with Star Trek yet, then why bother with it now? Star Trek movies tend to do well their first couple of weekends then they tend to fizzle at the box office. (Star Trek IV The Voyage Home could be an exception but it did have the original cast.) So the bigger budget is a liablity not an asset.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sim View Post
The problem of the previous movies was that they lacked appeal to common audiences. This movie may change it. Whether it will be successful at achieving that, we won't know that for sure until it's out.
Star Trek is a niche cultural phenomenon. It is unlikely to ever be more than that. Advertising can help get people to the theatres. Paramount has not yet gone all out on advertising for the Star Trek movies. Is there reason to think this will change?
  #9 
Old 11-29-2008, 12:47 PM
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Sim
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Steerpike View Post
Pleasing "common fans of action/SF movies" isn't going to expand the base and help the franchise grow. If they haven't bothered with Star Trek yet, then why bother with it now? Star Trek movies tend to do well their first couple of weekends then they tend to fizzle at the box office. (Star Trek IV The Voyage Home could be an exception but it did have the original cast.) So the bigger budget is a liablity not an asset.
Why not? Well possible new audiences get attracted. People who like action flics like the new Batman movies might find the movie is a great new blockbuster. And they may develop an interest in Star Trek because of that.

I'm not saying this is necessarily what will happen, but I don't see why it shouldn't.

Quote:
Star Trek is a niche cultural phenomenon. It is unlikely to ever be more than that. Advertising can help get people to the theatres. Paramount has not yet gone all out on advertising for the Star Trek movies. Is there reason to think this will change?
This movie may just be what's needed to get Star Trek out of the niche. LOTR was a hardcore-niche phenomenon too, only appreciated by nerds and geeks into role playing -- until the big popcorn blockbusters compatible with a broad audience, and the advertisement campaigns that came along with them, changed that.

And I am sure there will be more advertisement for Star Trek too, once the release comes sooner. Remember, it will not be out before May 8th. So it's a bit early to expect a huge advertisement campaign now.
  #10 
Old 11-29-2008, 01:03 PM
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Steerpike
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sim View Post
Why not? Well possible new audiences get attracted. People who like action flics like the new Batman movies might find the movie is a great new blockbuster. And they may develop an interest in Star Trek because of that.
Because you are talking about a casual viewer to begin with. Even if someone like that goes to see the movie, it doesn't follow that they will necessaruily then begin to follow the previous series and movies. The appeal of Star Trek is not based on LCD.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sim View Post
This movie may just be what's needed to get Star Trek out of the niche. LOTR was a hardcore-niche phenomenon too, only appreciated by nerds and geeks into role playing -- until the big popcorn blockbusters compatible with a broad audience, and the advertisement campaigns that came along with them, changed that.

And I am sure there will be more advertisement for Star Trek too, once the release comes sooner. Remember, it will not be out before May 8th. So it's a bit early to expect a huge advertisement campaign now.
That example doesn't help. Peter Jackson approached The Lord of the Rings respecting that core audience and the work he was dealing with. This Star Trek film is not respecting the core audience or the work. If it respected the work (or the surviving original cast members), then it wouldn't be tampering with canon. By not respecting the canon, it is not respecting the fans who value the canon or the original cast members who played a role in the success that was acheived.

What is budget on this questionable endeavor?
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