Man. After the first half an hour or 45 minutes everyone in the theater had their eyes glued forward. No one got up, no one spoke, everyone was stone.

My neice and nephew (4 and 5) fell asleep, though.

Well after seeing it for a third and probably final time, I think the anticipation and excitement had finally subsided.

I'm not really sure if I can determine a numeric value for rating movies so I'll hold my vote for now unless I get curious just want to see what people voted.

I've come across a few holes, filled in a few, and found some more. If anything this movie was a blast to see in theaters especially opening night and the first week isn't even over yet. We have yet to see what other kind of box office records it is destined to break.

Performances aside, one of the characters I had the biggest problem with was Lieutenant/Commissioner Gordon. My reasoning originates from the character's illogical, misplaced trust habits.

In the beginning of the film we understand there is still an ongoing "investigation" on Batman while Gordon and a few of his fellow officers work with the Batman to help nab the mob. Gordon places Batman's authority over that of the Gotham Police and he trusts Batman unquestionably. First of all, I'm not quite convinced that Gordon would necessarily invest that kind of trust in Batman just yet even after all he did in the first one and with Gordon's family at risk in TDK especially when Batman has a few shady moments that would make me raise an eyebrow if I were Gordon.

For example, when they're in the vault that the Joker robbed early in the film Batman says "some of the irradiated bills I gave you"... So the operation consists of using marked bills (that looked like a significant amount) that are kept in the banks in an attempt to catch the mob in their money laundering and they're doing it with bills that are given to Gordon by Batman... aaaannnnd Gordon has absolutely no curiosity where/how Batman would obtain the irradiated money. It's obviously nothing huge, but it just picks my brain that Gordon's character wouldn't be the least bit curious if not a little suspicious about it (Then again where the **** did he get the Tumbler too right?).

My next problem is Gordon's double-standard, stone-wall stubbornness. He trusts the Batman yet not the people in his department. It's pretty clear that many of "Gotham's finest" are involved in some fiendish activities. Harvey even tells him he could get a few of his detectives on racketeering charges yet he refuses to take action against them. So Gordon knows that he has corrupt cops under his wing yet he continues to employ their services on their raids, investigations, and keeping them up to date with crucial and clearly dangerous information. On top of that Gordon's argument for remaining adamant on trusting his men is that he wouldn't have much to work with if he locked them up. So his motto is "trust the little fish to help us catch the big ones".

Don't get me wrong, I understand that without the betrayal of Gordon's detectives Rachel wouldn't have been killed and Harvey wouldn't become Two-Face so it's essential to the story, but the fact that Gordon didn't even give it a second glance raises my eyebrow and is a little irritating. It makes him look like a mook who's forgets a few of his priorities and as a result makes a simple ****-up. It's almost insulting to his character.

The biggest thing that got me was Batman wasn't a detective.

Whenever detective type work of any sort came up, he turned to someone else to do it for him.

That's Gotham City for ya, can't trust anybody...'cept maybe Batman.

Though I'm glad they expanded on Lt. Gordon's character more and I actually felt bad when he got killed at the funeral, but then 20 minutes later he ends up arresting the Joker because the guy who died was just a decoy. And then Dent/Two-Face kidnaps his family.

Numeric values are not sufficient in reviewing anything, really.

He doesn't trust Batman unquestionably, he's simply the most trustworthy man he knows. I mean, saving the city and all it's inhabitants from brutally killing each other out of fear is a pretty big deal when it comes to who you trust, don't you think? I would trust the guy with little doubt. If he's that kind of dedicated, you know? I mean, what else do you want, man? Batman saved the entire damn city and shared his trust by not only protecting Gordon from the toxins, but letting him drive the tumbler. I don't care who you are, that is a sick piece of technology and for Batman to pass him the keys is quite trusting. You sure it's not Batman with the trust issues?

What are these "Shady moments" by the way? Something tells me you're not pointing to anything specific because if I know you well enough, you would have stated them if you were sure.

Batman didn't give him the money, dude, Batman made the trace. Not to mention, I'm pretty sure a lot of police stations are capable of leaving marked bills so for Batman to do it is not exactly a stretch. It's something really tiny and quite silly to complain about.

Gotham City is the capital of Dishonesty, the world Batman and friends live in. So as one of about 4 or 5 good cops remaining, Gordon turned his trust to a true hero, a man who laid his life on the lines plenty of times for others and saved Gordon from being poisoned himself. In a place like Gotham, trust is measured in actions and Batman had done plenty for Gordon by the end of Batman Begins. I'd say not trusting Batman would be the real problem.

Trust is not an issue here.

Because he doesn't know whose dirty obviously! He just knows that there are rats sniffing around, so what's he to do? Not use any of his officers? That's even worse than letting a few corrupt cops work with him. If he can't point fingers, it's not worth it . . yet. Also, at what point does Gordon pass along vital, dangerous information? I'm pretty sure he keeps the juicy bits for Batman and Dent.

I don't see a lot of what you're complaining about to be honest. If there's any trust issue here, it's "Why do Joker's thugs work for him?"

Did we see the same movie? It sounds like you're digging for the problem when it's not really there. Just give it some more thought. Gordon did the best he could with the little information he had. He trusts Batman because Batman sticks his neck out, gets dirty, saved countless lives in the last movie, and did none of it for himself. He did it solely for the good of his city and if you can't even trust a man who is willing to die to save even one person, then there wouldn't have been a movie, would there been?

And I know that I know you well enough to say that you just had to include "mook" in there somehow. Get a new word already!

I am gonna see dark knight again tonight and I am pumped

Then what was my next paragraph you just criticized?

Batman did give Gordon the money. He says that when he scans the bills in the vault "Some of the marked bills I gave you". So the bills came from Batman.

Harvey Dent says that he investigated a lot of his officers in IA. If that's the case don't you think Gordon would know which officers he would've investigated? On top of that Dent says flat out that he had Ramirez for racketeering charges. Gordon actually turns the blame back onto Dent saying that it was his office that was dirty.

I don't see any trust issues with why the Joker's thugs work for him. They're just as crazy as he is.

I'm not digging for problems that aren't there. I question Gordon's character because I would think that after the first movie he would want to make sure his department is clean. Clearly a lot of cops in the GCPD are corrupt but obviously not all of them. If he had listened to Dent he could have weened out who is or could have been corrupt.

I'm still not convinced about him trusting Batman as much as he did in comparison to There's actually moments in the first one that I question him trusting Batman as much as he does.

I'm not saying Gordon shouldn't trust Batman at all, but it seems a lot like an awkward double standard to trust Batman, know his officers are corrupt and not do anything about it.

I know too many to stop using it.

A misunderstanding. By the way, do you agree with me on the trustworthiness seeing as you didn't respond to my first paragraph?

You don't know that he actually gave him the money, dude. I had interpreted it as Gordon giving Batman the bills so he could mark them but who knows. We really can't tell because it's possible either way (either Batman marking them or actually giving his own bills which seems a lot less likely).

Come on Italiano, between us we've seen so many cop movies and you expect IA to cooperate with local police? They never do! IA works as a separate entity to prevent internal corruption, why would he share that stuff with Gordon when it's entirely possible (at first, in Dent's mind) Gordon was just as corrupt as the other cops? And how does Gordon replying with a "you too, stupid!" type of response mean that Gordon is inept? He didn't defend Ramirez, he simply responded with a response that said "Your guys are just as dirty as mine".

The joke was that trusting the Joker to give you steady work is a moron's train of thought. Not to mention, Joker's thugs are definitely not the same kind of crazy as him. Also, Gotham is such a sesspool that those guys are probably just following the trend. Like I said, it was just a joke that they considered working for him more than Gordon trusting Batman.

Dude, Dent was IA! IA does not cooperate with cops for obvious reason! They conduct their own investigations and report only to the high officers (which Gordon is not until the middle of TDK). Not to mention, who says he knows everybody whose corrupt? I bet he only knew a few people because if the entirety of Gotham is infected with crime, why not IA as well? Bottom line, it's nearly impossible for Gordon and Dent, both public figures who must retain some kind of order, to weed out criminals.

The first movie can easily be explained by desperation but also by the fact that Batman is responsible for bagging Valconi and that seemed to get to Gordon, it seemed to ring a few of his bells. A guy like Gordon with a family to protect and a precinct to watch over was probably highly relieved to know that someone did what he couldn't: Step outside the law for sake of a greater good. I think Gordon is very plausible in his trust. I guess I just don't see any of the issues you do.

Just think about it man, there's almost nothing he can do! All the corrupt ones will just protect one another. Not to mention, if Gordon steps up, he'll get the red crosshairs on his forehead as well as on his family. His best bet was to trust the Batman and his abilities to help heal the city.

I think you're simply looking way too hard at Gordon.

Yes I do. He blatantly says it in the vault "Some of the marked bills I gave you". Why would you interpret that as Gordon giving Batman the bills just to mark them and then giving them back? I saw the movie a third time. It's there.

Even if Dent's people were just as dirty (which we cannot tell since they were not part of the movie) Gordon knows for a fact that many of his cops are. I never said anything about IA cooperating with the Police but if they were investigating that many cops it's hard to keep it quiet. Plus Dent more or less doesn't suspect Gordon because Rachel tells him he's a friend before they meet face to face.

If not that then keep his guard up about who he trusts in the department but he doesn't suspect anybody even when he's told certain facts about his officers. He knew what was happening but chose to focus solely on the mob.

For me Gordon's trust issue is the smaller of the two we've been discussing. There's enough plausible evidence in both movies to disregard it for the most part. I mainly brought up the trust issue in comparison to his officers and who else he trusted. That was what stood out to me.

He didn't have to necessarily bag all the dirty cops on the force, but at least promote or use the ones he really trusted like Detective Stephens.

All this is micromanaging anyways, but it's a few problems that pick my brain.

To bring up a new one speaking of which...

The scene at the fund raiser party right where it starts cutting back between the comish, the judge, and Harvey, and then the judge and comish get capped and it cuts back to Harvey and Bruce comes up and chokes the hell out of him to get him unconscious... How did he know they were coming?

Point to where I said that he didn't say that line. Dude, I saw it twice with you, I know the line. Once again, all you're doing is assuming. The point is, that no matter what happened (whether the bills belong to Batman or Gordon gave him to Batman to mark) it's not a stretch at all. It's extremely easy to mark bills, especially for cops.

Mike, when you conduct an investigation of that sort, you don't "share it" with people. It stays as hidden as they can get it. By the way, yes we can tell Dent's people are dirty because Gordon said it! I saw the movie less than you and even I know that. Gordon doesn't know "for a fact" he just makes the most likely assumption that he's got rats in his department which is only a natural thought since Gotham is rotten to the core.

I didn't say Dent suspected Gordon, I said it's possible. Just because he's a friend of Rachel's doesn't mean much, especially in Gotham. All he can do is trust that this man hasn't done anything to Rachel, he can't assume anything else. And yes you did say something about IA cooperating with cops . . by suggesting that Dent should be sharing info with Gordon! How is that not cooperation between departments?

I'd love to know who tells you this stuff. Like, who told you that Gordon doesn't suspect people? Just because the movie doesn't show, means it doesn't happen? Also, if you were a commissioner, why the hell would you go after little guys when you have the mob by the nuts? It's a domino effect, take out the big guy(s) and the small timers run and hide. A lot of the cops seem to be blackmailed into criminal work anyways (the cops with hospitalized friends/family) and the ones that do it anyways would most likely dissipate since they'd be close to getting caught too once their mob bosses turned them in to save some jail time.

And I'm suggesting that there's no reason for it to stand out because it's highly plausible. You just seem annoyed at the fact that the movie didn't go into detail about Gordon hunting down dirty cops when they aren't the important ones.

Put it this way.

You have a really, really smelly room in your house, for whatever reason, and there are two large bulging trash bags in the center. Surrounding the trash is a bunch of wrappers and other miscellaneous items. Do you grab a broom or do you pick up the bags and throw them out? You take care of the biggest problems first.