It is amazing how you came up with that conclusion...

Other than the name calling, is there anything else you have scribbled on the palm of your hand that you wanted to share with us?

Ah and the inevitable attempted connection to a conservative figure head. The stereotypes just keep coming don't they? Please keep responding, it's like watching a six year old trying to knock down one of those "punch-me" clowns.

Certainly, you have a point here. But I'd like to add a more differentiated perspective: Of course it makes a huge difference whether a government is a Western democratically legitimized republic that's not above the law (in Germany, we use the term "Rechtsstaat" that cannot be properly translated; literally it's "lawful state"), or not. Usually, such a government won't just run around torturing, killing and terrorizing its own citizens, unlike dictatorships of any kind. (Of course there are exceptions, when you think of recent policies by the Bush government.) Americans often seem to ignore that crucial difference between tyrannies and free, constitutional republics when it comes to blaming the government, IMHO.

Also, some companies do killing as well. As much as there is sometimes a connection between organized crime and government, there is even more often a connection between private companies and organized crime. And then, there are private "companies" that do the killing for the government -- mercenary "security" companies like Blackwater.

But all this doesn't mean your point is not valid, and your point is well taken.

Agreed. But the opposite is just as bad: When we privatize certain services by the state, such as law enforcement, military or when we abolish the power monopoly of the state, we'd get anarchy. You hit the nail on the head when you say it's all about a balance.

"Inevitable"? I think that word doesn't mean what you think it does...

"So you are the kind of person who blames the gun for the death, huh? That's all I needed to know. You just bleed liberal stereotypes, it's like you've read "Being an arrogant liberal snob for Idiots" and memorized it cover to cover."

Kettle, there is someone I would like you to meet...

The name of the Trabant's "competitor" was Wartburg. Sometimes, you still see these scrap heaps on the streets in Berlin. And there are many jokes about them.

And I agree with you: As you point out, private enterprisers' strife for profit increases general welfare. It's one of the fundamental observations about free markets which, as often the case in economics, may seem counter-intuitive at first. The market is much more efficient at allocating resources than any planning commission could ever be.

But as I said above, private companies are not necessarily interested in free market principles. They could maximize their profits much more, if certain market mechanisms are not intact -- monopoly vs. competition, etc.

Regulation and government interference is not equivalent with "moslesting the market", on the contrary. Certain kinds of regulation are crucial to protect free market principles -- anti-trust laws that keeps particular companies from circumventing the market by gaining a monopoly position. Laws that create more transparency regarding products that keep producers from abusing information asymmetry by withholding information (customers can only make market-conform decisions when there is a full information symmetry).

Also, there is the "tragedy of the commons": Private actors sometimes don't pay costs they would have to pay for, if a true free market was intact. For example, pollution of air, water and ground -- pollution causes damage that the public has to pay for, because it's hard to bill the companies responsible for that damage. If there was a true free market, companies would have to pay the costs that arise due to cleaning pollution, the health damage due to people breathing polluted air or drinking polluted water, and so on. But it's very hard to trace all this back to the companies responsible -- so the public has to pay. That's not very free market-like -- because in a free market, individual actors have to pay for the resources they use and the damage they inflict.

How can this problem be solved? Should fossil fuels and chemicals be taxed more, for that damage due to pollutions is priced in? Should there be strict regulations for companies regarding pollution? Any route we would take would be a broad brush and probably be an disadvantage for some companies. But something has to be done here -- the free market is an ideal that can never be reached, and to protect its core, certain compromises are necessary.

kc, learn something from Sim, please. He's articulate, polite, respectful, and not a snob (most of the time ). And yes, I know what 'inevitable' means you pompous ****.My thinking was that if you were as stereotypical of a liberal as it gets, you'd eventually try to compare to someone the left views as a Satan like figure such as George Dubya, Blubberin' Bill O'Reilly or Sarah Palin. I was 1 for 3.

I'd like to hear more examples other than the obviously corrupt blackwater though because it seems like everyday more and more people have this idea that any corporation that makes more than hundred dollars a year must have cheated to get there or are killing people and harvesting their blood.

We haven't privatized law enforcement or the military though, if that's what you were inferring.

ha ha ha

I don't believe in Satan, sorry. Bush and Palin are dimwits and O'Reilly is a clown. You are just a foul mouthed conservative who can't or won't for a moment get out of his neatly packaged box and see the way the world is.

I love how "capitalists" characterize profits as something that help keep the economy going... "trickle down economics" or VOODOO Economics, as George the first called it, is a proven failure... and the first and best cause of the meltdowns in the economy of the 80s, 90s and this past decade.
Let me explain in small words how it works... when you work for someone you trade your labor for pay. That is an even exchange of goods and services... RIGHT? If it isn't even, someone is liable under fraud statutes. The laborer agrees to work for a certain amount of pay. Got it? Why is it that the workers can not ask for more pay? Because with an unemployment field of 10% of the population (normally a minimum of 5%) and underemployed reaching nearly 20% employers can tell them to go screw themselves and hire someone else.. it is the same reason they will never stop illegal immigration... why pay real exchange wages when you can pay nothing? So, the employer artificially creates a demand for a job at a low wage and effectively stops the employee from demanding a fair wage.
Don't even try to argue about competition, because there is no competition except on the labor side. WHY do you think there is a minimum wage law? So businesses have a lowest wage they can offer and stick to and not have to negotiate. And our highly educated work force thinks: Garsch, this must be the minimum that we need to make to succeed in this economy...
So, What is the purpose of a corporation? Make a profit or fulfill a societal need? Why does a corporation get "special status": legally, tax wise and criminally? Because it provides jobs? Because it offers something society needs?
What does "too big to fail" mean?
Why did the past two administrations when forced to do something to stimulate the economy give 1.5 trillion dollars to banks and investment firms, when it could have easily given that same money to voters, or taxpayers and or workers and or citizens... to the tune of up to $25,000 a person. Talk about a stimulus to the economy... what is wrong with "trickle up" economics?

30,000 more troops in Afghanistan and 100,000 more contractors... who is supporting whom?

We have done worse than privatize it, we are using MILITARY for civil needs. (whether we are talking about New Orleans or Haiti... that is not the purpose of the military) How many levels of militaristic government agencies are there? CIA, FBI, Homeland Security, Internal Revenue, NEA, INS, Border Patrol, National Guard (and all other State agencies like The Illinois Bureau of Investigation or The Highway Patrol, Sheriffs, Prison Guards and Police), Army/ Navy/ AirForce Reserve, Civil patrol, Coast Guard, US Marshals... I am sure I missing a few.

Can you tell me exactly how we are NOT now, and haven't been for the past 25 years, a Fascist State? Our elections are a joke, our representatives answer to and are owned by lobbyists and pollster-wordspinners. Our national policies (foreign and domestic) are formulated by the Federal Reserve (a PRIVATE banking'investment cabal).

Mod Post: kcdad and Cons, I'm certain that both of you are well aware of the rules at these forums. Name calling and flamming isn't tolerated. This is the last warning, please stay on-topic and do not use foul language even if you guys don't see eye to eye. Actions will be taken if this continues.

GF Staff

More "facts" without evidence, false assumptions that I'm a conservative because I don't believe in your opinion and . . wait, you actually think military power was and is being wasted on New Orleans and Haiti? Nevermind, maybe you aren't a by-the-book liberal, seems you've got a bit of Limbaugh in that closet of yours.

It is funny how you think the IRS is a military organization though.

I do have to say though, I laughed at the "give 25 grand to each person." You clearly have not been to the real world in quite a long time, kc. Corporations exist for the same reason giving people money will not help anyone, because most people are dumb, greedy, selfish individuals who are never satisfied. All you need for proof is hurricane Katrina. A lot of people needed help and money was given out to the tune of 1,000 per person by the Red Cross. Nearly half of the people they helped came back immediately asking for more. Checking what they spent it on, they found people buying TVs, expensive clothing, and **** like that they didn't need. Giving people money doesn't solve anything and for someone who has cried about the big failure companies like AIG and the banks, you should be more than aware that people are ****s and will not learn from their mistakes if they aren't allowed to learn their lessons.

Also, quick news flash and you may want to sit down for this one but corporations are composed of human beings. There is not some robot army running them or an army of mindless drones (that you're helping to teach apparently) at the helm, it's just your average Joe's on the big stage. Just because you've been preached to by independent media and blogs that big corporations are actually out to destroy humanity and you watch Terminator like it's a documentary (except Arnold is walking around handing out pink slips rather than bullets) doesn't make any of it real. You've bought into this alternate reality the far left wants you to see just like the far right still seems to think Obama is a foreigner who is secretly trying to support terrorism, change the national anthem to a 50 Cent song, and socialize the country. The truth of the matter is this: capitalism makes monsters out of growing companies when there is no regulation and when they are allowed to get in bed with politicians. A real core of the problem is this 69'ing going on with Washington and Rockefeller where the policies that form and help shape the sanity of our country are being subverted by big business thus making them immune to laws or able to dance around them. Corporations do the same things you and I do every day, they try and survive within their means. They makes tons of money, so they want to keep it that way just like I need to make at least a grand or so a month to keep up with bills. Yet, like people, they often aim far beyond their means and get in trouble. Then, our dip**** administration decided to save them rather than allow them to fail which would have been MUCH better for the economy in the long run because newer businesses would have taken their places. But instead, they got their hands held and rescued by Big Brother and now we're stuck with them for another fifty years while they slowly fail again.

People are jerks when they get power and it's very hard to find genuine people that do not allow such power to change them.

Well thanks, although I guess I can be quite a snob sometimes. Anyway, I am glad we, the two of us, could put our differences from last year behind us.

As you said, the above claim is obviously not correct. And Blackwater was just an on-the-spot example.

I know. It's just that in Iraq, the US Forces heavily relied on private "security" companies and mercenaries. Even if that's by far not a general privatization of law enforcement or military yet, it's still a questionable tendency, I believe.