Don't be sorry, its a discussion lol!

Ehh, people do this anyway, its called "a wave" lol, and people speak German anyway, its "modern foreign language" and its compulsory to choose german or french at many schools around here.

They were not alone.

They had a helping hand in Mussolinis Italy...

..... and lets not forget Slovakia, Hungary, Romania, Bulgaria, Yugoslavia and Croatia who also sided with the Germans(this includes Austria).

Then you had the puppet states like Finland, Albania and Greece/Macedonia who did their bit.


It is not quite alike but certainly the best example of what would of happened if the Axis forces had won and all you have to do is wind back the clock to the Iron curtain and have a look at either side of the wall. Poland; a country that would of probably been better off under Hitlers rule than Stalins. West Berlin with East Berlin; two peoples who are essentially the same living very different lives due to political circumstance.

to all :::::::::::::::::::::::

hi i am vladzo, i am signing in here rather than the introductions forum.

i say that if we look at it as only arithmetic, and try not to be personaly involved, then it would be perfectly clear that germany did not ever have a chance to take control of all of europe.

we must first see that there is a basic population to start with in germany.
-1- if this population grows by natural birth a certain amount, and it decresses by war death, a certain amount; then we may clearly see that there may not be a continuos big action war. there must be some rest times of peace for the population to catchup with enuf births to equal the deaths. then we must allow enuf time for these new births to growup enuf to go to war. IT SHOULD BE CLEAR THAT HITLER AND THE NAZI PHILOSOPHY NEVER HAD ANY TIME PLANNED FOR PEACE. it is clear, is it not; eventualy, the deaths by war would have overcome the amount of men needed to fight the war.
-2- if this population grows by recruitment, then it seems that there could be enuf men to continue the war forever. but who could the recruits be. they must be from the conquered peoples. how could these peoples all stay conquered if they were also recruited. and then how could they stay recruited if they were also conquered. therefore it is clear that eventualy the nazi empire would breakup the same as the assyrian, the roman, the hunnish, and any other emprire based on powerful domination.
-3- now we must do the same arithmetic with industrial and agrarian production. just the amount of man power needed to run the industry and farms would have to be constantly increased as the empire increased. this increase would have to be either paid or forced. the force would mean less men for the actual combat. the pay would mean less materials for the military. again we can see that eventualy the nazi war machine would stop.
-4- now we must calculate the raw materials, and we must find them. this is simpler. it is clear that, without peace, eventualy the nazi war machine would stop.
-5- now just try to tell me that the nazi war machine would have continued all the way accross the atlantic. certainly not, no chance.

vladimr

I agree.

The biggest hinderance to the US was gearing up for war. Once they got the manufacturing processes geared up and going, the US has an enormous amount of resources. Would be tough to beat...even with V2's being more advanced.

I think things would end up in World Blocs. The Americas in one, a Nazi Europe/Africa (tons of dead jews and black people, but those South Afrikaners would be fitting Adolf's mould well...).

And then there would be a Soviet contingency. With focusing on the UK, Hitler couldn't keep going with Russia. And Russia also had the war machine pumping. Oil would come to Hitler from the ME, Russia would have its own supplies, and the US would get it from their bloc.

Eventually, I think that the japanese would fall, abandoned by the Nazis (what does Hitler care...japanese aren't blonde haired or blue eyed and their pact would have been broken eventually), and the chinese would have been supported by russia on one side, the US on the other. Between those 3, the japanese would have folded.

I think the simple answer for this question is that:

Everyone would be unhappy.

Excepting, of course, the Germans and their allies.

Many things would have needed to go differently than they did, for that Germany/the Axis could have won WW2.

Hitler was following a 3-step-plan: First step, conquering dominance over Europe, second step conquering "Lebensraum" in the east (Poland and USSR) for German colonization and "additional Lebensraum" in Africa. And third step, finally, the "end battle" against the USA for world dominance, approx. 20 years after step two. Germany failed, because step two was started before step one was accomplished, and finally even step three.

For Germany to win, it would have required "Operation Sea Lion" (the planned invasion on Britain in 1940) to be successful. Assuming Germany would have achieved that, it may have had enough forces to beat the USSR the following year.

Or, let's assume "Sea Lion" failed in 1940 as it did, but the 1941 invasion against the USSR would have been successful, maybe due to a milder winter and/or better leadership in the highest ranks of the army -- had Germany defeated the USSR in, say, early 1942, Germany might have had enough forces available to try another invasion on Britain.

*IF* the war against the USSR and the invasion on Britain had both been successful, the Axis would have dominated Europe, and it would have been possible for the US to win the war -- still I think an Axis invasion on North America would have been nearly impossible. Much like the US could not have invaded Nazi-Europe without Britain, the Nazis could not have invaded North America without a heavily defended ally next to the continent.

The most likely result would have been a "Cold War" emerging between the US on one side, Nazi-Europe on the other, much like what we've seen between the US and USSR after WW2.

Especially since it would have been only a matter of time, until Germany would have developed nukes: Germany had been researching on that field, but IIRC, the program for development of nukes was stopped in 1943, when Hitler demanded all resources should be focused on building weapons that "can be used within 6 months", and also because there was not enough uranium available. But assuming Germany had successfully conquered Britain and the USSR, and thus ultimate dominance over Europe, they would have found ways to get uranium and finally restarted the nuke program again.

So I think had Germany won in Europe, both the US and Germany would have developed nukes by the mid- to late-40s and started an arms race.


If Nazi Germany had been capable of maintaining power over Europe is a different question. Maybe we would have seen something similar to "de-stalinization" (like after 1956 in the USSR) in Germany after Hitler's death, the new leaders being a bit more open and lenient and less ideological, and giving the conquered peoples some more leeway. But Nazism as ideology in general would have survived, much like marxist-leninist communism survived Stalin.

I don't think there would have been major uprisings in the occupied countries in Europe, because rabid nationalism and suprematist ideas were popular back then not just in Germany. Also, Germany would not have literally enslaved France, Britain or other Western countries, but formally declared them "allies", installed puppet regimes and told the peoples there Germany is their best friend, while informally holding dominance (much like the Soviets did in the Eastern Bloc).

Maybe such a Nazi Europe would have collapsed eventually, as the USSR did, or at least slightly eroded -- but that could have taken decades.

I'm willing to bet that if Nazi Germany won we'd still be at war with every country from Portugal over to North Korea, and there'd be Nazi flags in damn near every country in the Eastern Hemisphere.

Im glad they didnt lol
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that would have been bad

If you like living out your fantasy as the lone gunman fighting the nazis with your open carry pistol, that's fine, but keep it on the XBox.

If you want to talk about alt history, that's fine, but it should be historical (Sim's post is an excellent example).

Let me put it this way: Germany lost WWII. But did the Nazis? That's debatable. With so many nazis funded and inspired by Americans and so many more finding refuge in NASA and the Pentagon in the name of The Cold War, it's hard to really say.

Turning Point was a terrible game.