Do humans have free will, or are our lives predetermined? Are we in control of our actions, our choices, our lives, or is everything we do part of some destiny that we cannot change? What do you believe about this subject, and why? (hopefully this will branch off into further discussion, and not just end at the questions I've asked, so people joining into this later on... make sure you read the thread before posting)

I have yet to be presented with a clear definition of free will, nor have I ever found or been presented with any reason to believe we are any different (in principle) from other animals.

What I do know is that we are made of matter, and matter acts according to physical laws.

Also, I can only think of two possibilities for why we act. Either our actions are random, or they are predetermined. What other possibility is there?

The American Heritage® Dictionary of the English Language, Fourth Edition defines Free Will as
" 1. The ability or discretion to choose; free choice: chose to remain behind of my own free will.
2. The power of making free choices that are unconstrained by external circumstances or by an agency such as fate or divine will."

A third possibility besides random action and predetermined action is that we have a concious choice to do any action. If you are offered a job, and take the job, did you do so randomly, was it predetermined, or did you make a concious choice?

If we are no different from animals, it brings up the question... do animals have free will? Are they able to make choices and decisions, or is everything they do predetermined (or random, as a third option)?

My beliefs on this are that I would like to believe we have free will, but that I really don't know. I'd like to think that when I choose to eat breakfast, I'm doing so because that is my concious choice, and not because it is in my destiny to make that choice. I'd like to think that anything I do, I'm doing it because I choose to do it, and I could have chosen the other but didn't, not that the only real option was the choice I chose because I was going to choose that choice. I reject the fact that our actions are random, because if someone offers me two choices, and I choose one, I feel I did so for a reason. However, I find it is unfortunately impossible to know whether or not I actually have free will... if I make a choice and feel I made that choice, it could very well be in my destiny to make that choice and feel that way about it.

Fate is often the counterpoint to free will in these type discussions.

In other words, are we bound by fate or do we have the free will to change our destiny?

I think that free will exists on most levels. However, I can't preclude the possibility that fate and or destiny might play a part in things.

This is one of those infinitely debatable topics because there really is no proper way to validate it either way.

It is interesting to contemplate, though.

I don't find it depressing or unfortunate to have my lack of belief in free will. In fact, I find it sort of refreshing.

Oh, and another point to keep in mind...

There are NO psychiatric drugs that were developed based on the assumption of free will. Think about that.

What do you mean?

If free will exists, psychiatric drugs shouldn't work. They do work. Therefore...

Prozac and free will are mutually exclusive?

That's the way I see it. The brain is a physical object. It's extremely complex, yes, but complexity does not negate cause/effect.

Given certain variables, the brain will act a certain way. Your senses, memory, brain chemistry, and the structure of the brain itself all count as variables.

Have you ever done something you didn't want to do? The short answer is no, you haven't. You've done things you wanted to do, and sometimes they carry consequences along with them, but you weighed the pros and cons every time and decided that the pros were worth it.

Hypothetical example: A friend dares you to eat dog food. Of course you don't want to eat dog food, but you do want to impress your friend. So, depending on the rest of the variables involved, you may act on the wish to impress your friend. If that variable had not been in place, you probably would not have eaten the dog food. I say probably because curiosity, starvation, money, and other variables can play a role as well.

If all these variables form some extremely complex equation (but an equation nonetheless) that determines a certain outcome, then what is so "free" about it?

And before someone* thinks that I'm some immoral **** who wants to knock free will out of the picture just so I can do whatever I want and then blame determinism, I don't. Responsibility and social consequences still exist. I mean, if a robot came into your house and came at you with a knife, I'd expect you to break (kill) it, detain (jail) it, and figure out how to prevent the robot from attacking you in the future.

More on that later.





*You know who

Breathilizer: Now that's a good post! *rep given*

I want to disagree with you, saying something along the lines of how what if we had a mind that makes a choice outside of the physical processes of the brain, a mind which would then set off the brain's processes to the eventual outcome of following through with the choice... but that contradicts my post in the mind body dualism thread, so I'm kind of stuck. I think you may have me here, but it will be interesting to see how other people respond.